


14.06 It’s Not F*@!~#g Archie!

by nochickflickpodcast



Series: NCFM Season 14 [6]
Category: Supernatural
Genre: (No) Chick Flick Moments, Character Analysis, Comedy, Discussion, Episode Analysis, Episode: s14e06 Optimism, Fancast, Gen, Humor, Meta, Podcast, Screenplay/Script Format, transcript
Language: English
Status: Completed
Published: 2019-09-14
Updated: 2019-09-14
Packaged: 2020-10-18 20:01:44
Rating: Teen And Up Audiences
Warnings: No Archive Warnings Apply
Chapters: 1
Words: 17,909
Publisher: archiveofourown.org
Story URL: https://archiveofourown.org/works/20644856
Author URL: https://archiveofourown.org/users/nochickflickpodcast/pseuds/nochickflickpodcast
Summary: Join us in covering S14E6, "Optimism", or the one where Jack delivers a holy water handshake, Sam and Charlie bust up a Smelly Fortress of Solitude, and Dean experiences a micro-aggression. Tune in for thoughts on romance, roosters, and Charlie redux.





	14.06 It’s Not F*@!~#g Archie!

**Author's Note:**

> Complete transcript of (No) Chick Flick Moment's 14.06: It's Not F*@!~#g Archie!
> 
> Listen in full [here](https://www.nochickflickpodcast.com/episodes/episode/1e21c58d/1406-its-not-f~g-archie), or wherever you get your podcasts!
> 
> Website ([x](https://www.nochickflickpodcast.com/)) Twitter ([x](https://twitter.com/nochickflickpod)) Tumblr ([x](https://nochickflickpodcast.tumblr.com/)) 
> 
> Come join us!

Remmy: Hello, everybody! Good afternoon... or evening, or morning, or whatever it is for you guys. This is (No) Chick Flick Moments. I am your co-host, Remmy.

Bea: And I am your other co-host, Bea.

Remmy: Welcome!

Bea: So, Remmy, what's on the docket today?

Remmy: Today, we are going to be talking about season 14, episode 6: "Optimism". Supernatural, by the way, in case you didn't know.

Bea: If you've gotten this far and didn't realize that this is a Supernatural watchcast podcast.

Remmy: [laughs] And today we're already on episode 6, I can't believe it.

Bea: Mhmm.

Remmy: This is another stellar episode, written by Steve Yockey and directed by Richard Speight Jr. Good old Gabriel!

Bea: Gabriel's back!

Remmy: I'm only now realizing that he actually directs episodes with regularity.

Bea: Yeah.

Remmy: Yeah!

Bea: And I shouldn't be surprised that Yockey wrote this one. I mean, it's knocked out of the park. It's such a good episode.

Remmy: It is. What even is this season? I haven't had one — We haven't had one stinker so far.

Bea: Yeah, it just feels like they get stronger and stronger, and so knowing that next season is the last season... It makes me a little wistful, but I'm also like, they're definitely going to go out on a strong note.

Remmy: I shouldn't have said that, I don't want — I'm gonna jinx us. The description for this episode reads: _ Sam and Charlie team up to get to the bottom of a string of random disappearances. Meanwhile, Jack believes that he has found a case and convinces Dean to partner up with him on the hunt _.

Bea: So good. We get Charlie back in this episode.

Remmy: Felicia Day. I always love to see Felicia.

Bea: Yes. So, we start off right away in McCook, Nebraska, where we see this woman who is heading off to work at a library. She flips the 'Come in!' sign on the library and gets to work shelving books.

Remmy: We never talk about the recaps for these episodes, but I did want to say, for anyone who is paying any attention to the recap for this episode: We had a really intense recap.

Bea: I'm so glad you brought this up.

Remmy: [laughs]

Bea: Because, yeah, watching that recap I was like, “Holy s***! What is this song? What is this editing?” They were really hitting hard beats the whole way through.

Remmy: It was a freaking, like, _ 24, _ Jack — who's the f****** dude in _ 24 _?

Bea: I only know his name, Kiefer Sutherland.

Remmy: Oh my god, Kiefer Sutherland levels of intensity in this recap. And I was like, "What's going on??" And then we — 

Bea: Heartbeat, increasing heartbeat.

Remmy: Yeah! Yeah exactly! I was like, "I'm scared, mom!" And — and we open on this _ Toy Story _ piano opening — 

Bea: [laughs]

Remmy: — of an idyllic town, with this young, beautiful, friendly woman going through the town.

Bea: It's all so sunny and bright.

Remmy: Uh-huh. I was like, "What's happening??"

Bea: Yeah, you're tricking me already, guys! And as we'll see as this episode unfolds, there's this real balance between your storybook expectations versus what reality deals you.

Remmy: Mhmm.

Bea: So this librarian, her name is Harper, and she is at work. Did you want to comment on her outfit here, for a second?

Remmy: Go ahead!

Bea: Because those ruffles, and that lace tie that she had going on...

Remmy: [laughs] Oh, you like? You likey?

Bea: It was an interesting look! I wouldn't put it with modern day, but I think that really speaks to the character. She's not living in the present day. She's going for these more retro looks.

Remmy: It was fashionably retro.

Bea: Yes, and I believe that there was meta out there talking about the whole trench coat that she had going on, too. Any time that we see a trench coat — 

Remmy: [laughs]

Bea: — or we see a tan-colored coat, there's gonna be thoughts.

Remmy: Uh-huh. I don't remember that meta but we’ll see if it comes up

Bea: [sighs] Oh, man. Yeah, so she's shelving books. And then this boy her age comes out. His name is Winston and he is asking her about dinner. And, because he startled her, this additional boy named Miles shows up saying that he's going to protect her. He's got his stapler out.

Remmy: Wielding a red stapler. Yeah. He's like, "I heard a scream! Harper, everything okay?"

Bea: Yeah. So we see right away that Harper has at least a couple love interests. Or at least people who are interested in getting to know her more.

Remmy: Uh-huh.

Bea: And she is very adamant when she's talking to Winston: "It's not a date. We'll just have dinner."

Remmy: Yeah, yeah. But Winston, I don't think he gets the memo. Because he — Well, he feels he has his foot in the door, definitely. He exits the library once he gets that confirmation from Harper: "So, tonight? Ehh? Yeah? Yeah??" And Harper's trying to bring him down a little bit, but Winston leaves the library and we have this _ Spider-Man 3 _ Tobey Maguire sequence.

Bea: [laughs] Just high-on-life dancing.

Remmy: Uh-huh. He's dancing down the street. He's like, heck yeah, dreams come true.

Bea: And just when he's on that high note there, with a spring in his step, he's grabbed, and then promptly murdered off-screen.

Remmy: [laughs] Because this is Supernatural's cold open, what else could we possibly expect?

Bea: And it's already so much fun. I hate to say that after saying "Oh, and the guy died," but there's just this infectious energy that's going on already. It makes me really keen to see what's coming next.

Remmy: Yeah. Yeah. We're definitely starting off giddy. It's good.

Bea: Yes. And after this scene, we now cut to Jack, who is drinking sugar with some coffee.

Remmy: [laughs]

Bea: Dean has come into the kitchen, commenting on that. But yeah, what did you think of the scene starting here?

Remmy: Yeah... Dean pokes fun at Jack about how much sugar he's putting in his coffee. I'm ride-or-die for the... “Angels like sugar…”

Bea: Yes. “Angels have a sweet tooth.”

Remmy: “Angels have a sweet tooth,” yeah. Um...

Bea: Headcanon.

Remmy: I guess, yeah. The angels-have-a-sweet-tooth headcanon. So, I like to see that. I had a little giggle at it, just as a viewer of the show who has seen this before. I don't know if it was intentional but, like I said, I always [enjoy it]. It's fun. And... Jack is bored, right? Actually, we're not even told that Jack is bored yet.

Bea: Nope, not quite yet.

Remmy: Mhmm.

Bea: Dean has come in asking after where Sam is, and it's Jack who fills him in. Dean has been off doing an overnight run to Mary and Bobby's, he says.

Remmy: Yep.

Bea: And so Sam has gone off to meet Charlie on this case. And Jack, he says — he suspects that they're doing something very exciting right now.

Remmy: Uh-huh.

Bea: And we get this beautiful cut to Sam and Charlie sitting in the truck outside Memphis, Tennessee. And they are just looking absolutely bored out of their minds.

Remmy: [laughs] Stakeout. They're doing a stakeout of this bus stop, and that [scene] cut, like you said, was so comedic. They're just bored out of their minds, sitting in complete silence in this beat-up truck, and they're doing something exciting, alright.

Bea: Oh yeah. And we get a fun little bundle of cuts that are happening here, flipping between Jack and Sam and Charlie, and the things that we're hearing versus the actual... Expectations versus reality, I suppose you would put it.

Remmy: Yeah, yeah.

Bea: Because there they are, they're bored, looking at this 'Pete the Pestinator' bus bench, and then we go back to Jack and, essentially, Jack spills the beans that he's just here because Sam wanted somebody to be here when Dean got home.

Remmy: Yeah.

Bea: Because Sam's worried, and we get, once again — this will be the third episode in a row that someone is speaking to Dean and saying, "No one blames you for what happened with Michael."

Remmy: Yeah. One question, did we mention Cas? Just curious.

Bea: I didn't hear anything about where Cas was, for this one.

Remmy: Yeah. Just [curious], because we did that little rundown of where everyone was, at the very beginning. I didn't know if we had mentioned Cas. But yeah, Jack is here, and he's not off as he has been before, with Cas hunting. Like you said, he's spilled the beans, he's pretty much doing Sam a favor in staying home, because Sam didn't want Dean to be alone at the bunker.

Bea: Yeah, and when Dean is told once again that it's, like, "No one blames you," Dean just goes, "Cool. Well, I blame me."

Remmy: Yeah. Yeah, again, we've talked about it. We've talked it to death in the past two episodes, that Dean is... I don't know, he's almost trying something new with his complex where he shoulders all responsibility for everything ever, because he's Dean and that's what he does. But he's been telling Sam the past few episodes and now he's telling Jack the same thing that he's been telling Sam, which is, "I'm not okay, and I do blame me. And I'm trying to move on, but..." For now, it's almost like, "I don't need to be told that no one blames me, because I blame me and that's enough."

Bea: Yeah, he is showing this degree of patience with being constantly told that no one blames him. Despite how many times he hears it, Dean isn't able to move past it. So he's really just accepting these outside opinions without internalizing them.

Remmy: Yeah.

Bea: Yeah, and it's in this scene with Jack that [Jack] starts coughing, and he plays it off, saying, "Well, maybe I'm allergic to boredom."

Remmy: Uh-huh.

Bea: And he's just adamant. He wants to hunt. Cas says that he's been doing good so, come on, let Jack out of the cage, basically.

Remmy: Yeah, and Dean was putting him down a bit. He was like... I don't know, not trusting Jack on his word.

Bea: It was more tempering his expectations.

Remmy: Yeah. Because Cas had told Jack, "Oh you're doing a good job," but Cas has told Dean, "Yeah, he's doing a good job, _ but _..."

Bea: Well, I don't even think that Cas would have said, "Yeah, but," about what Jack is doing. I'm sure that Cas was just, "Jack is doing a great job," but it's Dean, here, who...

Remmy: Who's inserting the 'but'.

Bea: Yes. He is doing his wisdom, judgment, on this case, and he's saying that Cas has been an insurance policy on those hunts. And, no offense, but we want to keep you safe. Sam wants to keep you safe. "And he's a smart guy, so why don't you listen to him."

Remmy: And we cut back to Sam with Charlie. [laughs]

Bea: And Sam is enamored with this fidget spinner.

Remmy: Uh-huh. Sam has a fidget spinner, and he is having a good ol' time.

Bea: Yeah, and Charlie's just like... I seriously left my world for this??

Remmy: It was funny, yeah. Charlie gives him the side-eye, and Sam immediately stops and he's like... Aw...

Bea: He's suitably chastised.

Remmy: Aww.

Bea: But now we go quickly back to Jack, and he is very adamant about proving himself to Dean, here. He lays out a tablet that is talking about Winston Mather's eulogy. Is that… eulogy?

Remmy: Winston Mather's obituary.

Bea: Obituary, you're right. There were human bite marks all over his body, and there [are] other people missing in this area. And that seems to be enough to get Dean to go, "Oh, yeah, maybe I'll check it out."

Remmy: Yeah and Jack says, “No! I found the case. We're supposed to be hunting in pairs. I'm coming with you."

Bea: And not only that, but, “I need to do something.”

Remmy: Uh-huh.

Bea: “Here's basically all the pros about bringing me along. There's no cons. Don't think about the cons. Let's just go.”

Remmy: [laughs] And Dean, who has been only lending half an ear to Jack through this whole thing. He's making his spaghetti taco and saying, "Eh, I don't know..."

Bea: The spaghetti taco. [sighs] 

Remmy: [laughs] He pulls leftovers from the fridge, and...

Bea: This is my heart, right here, because I totally get that. I was the kid that was like, "Okay, this will work."

Remmy: [laughs]

Bea: And it's just carb sandwiches, like... Bless.

Remmy: Spaghetti taco. Yeah.

Bea: And poor Jack in this moment. He gets to break out and say — this is really his first time of vocalizing what it is, precisely, that is frustrating him about doing nothing.

Remmy: Troubling him. Yeah.

Bea: We've seen in the first episode, the second episode, that he wants to do something, but here is when he's finally saying that he was strong enough to kill Michael and he didn't. He was distracted and stupid and now that option's off the table, and he just feels like he needs to do something to make amends for that.

Remmy: Yeah, I mean, so at the very beginning of this conversation, Jack was saying to Dean, "No one blames you," and now he's bringing it back on himself, saying...

Bea: Yeah, “Here's my self-blame.”

Remmy: "I feel your pain," almost, because I was the one who screwed up. I was the one who was too stupid or distracted or weak to kill Michael and Lucifer when I had the chance. Dean is not having that which is — yeah.

Bea: Yeah. Dean assures him that you didn't do anything, and Jack flips it right back around and says, "Neither did you."

Remmy: Yeah.

Bea: "But that doesn't make it any easier, does it?" 

Remmy: I think this is what convinces Dean to...

Bea: Yeah, and this is really the first time that we're seeing Jack and Dean actually have some proper bonding, isn't it? Because there was a very short period in season 13 where Dean and Jack were on a sociable level with each other, before Jack got taken over to the apocalypse world. And so, for me, this was where we're really seeing Dean start to decide he's going to take this kid under his wing. 

Remmy: Oh, yeah. Absolutely. It was a very short window in season 13 after Cas came back. It was just in-between Cas coming back to life and Jack disappearing into the apocalypse world that Dean — I don't know. I wouldn't even say that they were bonding. I would just say that Dean was not openly antagonistic to the kid.

Bea: I would agree. Yeah. It was more that Dean was tolerant of the kid and maybe could see, "Okay, he's not bad. He could be good," and had Jack placed on that level of [he] would be an innocent we would want to protect.

Remmy: Yeah.

Bea: Just something along that neutral area, but now he and Jack have this common ground of, "Hey, look — self-loathing! You're good at it too? Awesome!"

Remmy: [laughs] 

Bea: And he can totally relate to not wanting to be stuck in the bunker just rehashing old mistakes. He concedes, "Okay, Jack, we'll get you out of here. We'll get your mind off of what could have been."

Remmy: Jack says, "Come on. Let's be hunting buddies," and Dean says, "One: Never call it that. Two: Okay, fine."

Bea: Oh, it's so...

Remmy: "Let's go."

Bea: There's such a great comedic energy between the two of them. Alex has some exceptional timing when it comes to his character, because he gets to play the straight man to Dean's more laughable moments. At the same time, Alex gets his own laughs, as we see later.

Remmy: Yeah. This was a great comedic episode.

Bea: And I did like that we just finished wrapping up with Jack and Dean, and Dean's agreeing to go out hunting, and the next scene we go into is Sam on a phone call with Dean, essentially signing off on Dean going and taking [Jack] out. That this is Dean's idea of what they can do. 

Remmy: Yeah. Sam's not totally happy about it. He says, "Are you sure? Are you sure? It's Nebraska. It's really close by. We can send out a couple hunters with you," and then we don't actually hear any of Dean in this conversation but Sam accepts. He says, "Okay. Okay, just be careful. Check-in. Talk to you later."

Bea: There's some great growth that comes from this small snippet here. They could have very easily not done this touch base at all, but here the brothers aren't going behind each other's backs. Sam is the de facto leader of the hunters of the hunter hub, and so Dean is still deferring to his brother when it comes to, "This is the way we do things now, so I'm stepping in line. I don't expect special treatment."

Remmy: There's just something about season 14 where all of these Team Free Will relationships — Mary, Cas, Sam, and Dean — they're all so settled and just this understood... understanding? [laughs] 

Bea: Trust. There's a trust there. 

Remmy: It's just — I think we are moving away from that, like you said, going behind each other’s backs.

Bea: The drama isn't about seeing the characters pitted against each other. The drama is about seeing the characters unite against these other forces, and finding assurance that they got each other's backs.

Remmy: And it's so good. Yeah. A little different, but it's good.

Bea: I vastly enjoy it, simply because if you stick to interpersonal drama then it can get so easy to fall into the same repetitive pattern of “person A betrays person B, and person B's offended,” and then rinse-repeat it backwards the next season. We're getting into this new area of: Sam and Dean do have support. They do have people that have got their backs, and in turn they have each other's backs in a way that is just very firm and unquestioning.

Remmy: Yes. That's — those are the words that I was looking for: Firm and unquestioning, and, like I said, settled and unshakable.

Bea: Yes, it's so good. But in this scene, we can see Charlie doesn't feel quite as settled with [them], and it doesn't help when Sam is making these constant comparisons back to Charlie. "You know, I mean _ our _Charlie."

Remmy: Oh my God.

Bea: As in, I'm still excluding you. "You're _ their _Charlie."

Remmy: Yeah, I mean, so this — Sam, I love you, but I was cringing through every single one of your lines here, because it's just like, "Stop it, Sam." So, Sam is a very empathetic [character] and — I don't know. This is the role that he fills sometimes, in that he's the sociable one. He's the heart-to-heart guy. 

Bea: Yeah, he's quite compassionate with everyone that he comes across. 

Remmy: Yeah, and so he is being Sam here, but sometimes with Dean, Dean says, "You're pushing it, [Sam,]" and I think here is one of those those instances where Sam is tipping over into pushing it.

Bea: Yeah, Sam is still lagging behind the thought that, although she looks the same, this isn't “my” Charlie. It just hasn't clicked for him yet.

Remmy: Yeah. And yeah, so.

Bea: He's doing all these unfortunate social faux pas and you can see Charlie's being really patient about it, but her patience has a limit.

Remmy: Yeah. Is this the scene where Charlie asked about Dean and Dean's friends, or is that a different scene? 

Bea: No, that's coming up. 

Remmy: Okay. 

Bea: This is the scene — Charlie has laid down the foundation for her case, that she’s done some scouting. There's been people missing. She found some goo around here, says she's pretty sure this is where they need to be. She busts out a book to basically — I like it as a gesture of, "Okay, quiet time. We're done socializing. I need to look at this now." [laughs] 

Remmy: Yeah. Yeah.

Bea: She can use it as a tap-out. 

Remmy: Yeah. Sam — I think that in this scene Sam is trying to connect with her a little bit, but he might be treating a bit too familiarly, I think, anyways. Charlie pulls out her book and she's like, "Let's just have quiet time for a minute."

Bea: Yeah, and then the next scene. This — this f****** setting. 

Remmy: [laughs] 

Bea: [sighs] Dick's Red Rooster Diner.

Remmy: Dick's Red Rooster Diner. 

Bea: Where have you ever heard such a restaurant name?

Remmy: They found one. I don't think they pulled that one out of the props warehouse. [laughs] I think that was on location, there.

Bea: I would be shocked. I'm gonna look this up after.

Remmy: It was fun!

Bea: I — it is fun! But I'm like, my God.

Remmy: They had mugs and everything. "Dick's Red Rooster."

Bea: I'm losing it over symbolism for this, but I'm not going to get into it in this moment.

Remmy: [chanting] C***s, c***s, c***s, c***s c***s c***s — 

Bea: [laughs] Ahh, _ screams _. Okay, I'm fine.

Remmy: You got it. You got it. 

Bea: Yes. Yeah. Dick's Red Rooster Diner. The victim loved having — this is his favorite breakfast spot, which is oddly specific for an obituary. 

Remmy: The writing in this episode, I swear to God. It's just the lines that they deliver so perfectly. Yeah, Jack says, "That's oddly specific for an obituary," and Dean says, "Yeah, they never know what to put in those things for young guys who die." Like, aww, but it was funny. 

Bea: Augh, yeah. It's so good. Dean pushes up to the front counter there, and he's speaking to a server named Wanda. She's being a little sassy to him. He tries pushing for more help and he's flashing the FBI badge. It's getting him nowhere because Wanda knows her rights.

Remmy: Yeah, and Jack is studiously taking notes, but when Wanda doesn't want to share, Dean pulls out his billfold and he's like, "Okay, if the badge isn't doing it for you, then how about a bribe?" [laughs] And freaking — freaking Jack, he's just like, "What?" He looks around.

Bea: Like, "That's an option?"

Remmy: [laughs] 

Bea: [sighs fondly] 

Remmy: And finally Wanda starts talking. 

Bea: Yeah, she gives out Harper Sales' name, and she mentions that Winston was “courting” her.

Remmy: Uh-huh.

Bea: And poor Jack — "Ah. Courting," and basically Jack's brain goes [from] courting to dating to sex, and Wanda just leans in and is like, "Sometimes you can just have the sex."

Remmy: And again Jack is like, "Ooh, that's an option?"

Bea: And Dean's flustered, and in this moment, he nudges aside this glass rooster figure and I'm like — I just sit. 

Remmy: [laughs] 

Bea: I take my glasses off. I put my hands on my face and I'm like, "This is the setting."

Remmy: [laughs] Yeah. 

Bea: I'm okay. 

Remmy: You're okay?

Bea: My hands are still on my face. 

Remmy: You're okay. [pause] Interview montage!

Bea: Yes, interview montage! Some rapid cuts of basically the part from _ Mean Girls _, like, "So I heard from a friend of a friend."

Remmy: Uh-huh.

Bea: They're going through the rundown of who Harper Sales is, and she was the prom queen in high school. Her boyfriend ran off after college. She loses men around her. She's obsessed with books, and she just has bad luck, and it's a real shame. “She seems like such a nice girl.”

Remmy: Yep. Yeah. Nice girl, many misfortunes.

Bea: And now Jack and Dean are wondering if there's something specific about her that is causing things outside of her to get hurt.

Remmy: Yeah.

Bea: But we don't dwell too long. After this montage, we go back to Charlie and Sam, and here is where Charlie can see that Sam is still worried about Dean having gone off on this case with Jack. Charlie assures him that Dean will be fine. "He's got other friends, doesn't he?" And we've had extensive thoughts on this, but I feel like we can talk about it again.

Remmy: Well, yeah. Yeah. So again, I was just like, "Sam, stop it. You're not doing it right." Augh. Like I said, so cringey. And again, it wasn't done bad. The dialogue was good. The writing was good. It was Sam being Sam, but I was like, "Noo." It was like watching a crash in slow motion. [laughs]

Bea: Yeah. Sam, read the room!

Remmy: So Sam says, "Yeah, he used to have a really great wingman," and Charlie says, "Hey, call that guy up," and Sam says, "Well that guy was you." I'm like, "No!" Again, that crash in slow motion. No!

Bea: Yeah, and Charlie immediately has to start firming up boundaries. Like, "No. That wasn't me."

Remmy: Which I really did love. I loved — I really like Felicia Day a lot this episode. She killed it. 

Bea: Yeah. She was doing exceptional work. 

Remmy: Yeah, and she sets Sam straight as best she can, like, you know, it wasn't me. And he rolls it back. He says, “Well, yeah, not _ you _, sorry.” So he's at least — he at least understands on a superficial level that this Charlie is not their Charlie, but I think he only understands it to the point where, "Okay, this is Charlie. This is our Charlie. She just doesn't know us yet."

Bea: Yes, and Charlie, she can sense that this is what is basically happening. There's that dissonance going on in Sam's brain. And so she takes a moment to basically lay it out. 

Remmy: Yeah. 

Bea: She was a programmer. She lived with the love of her life, Cara, who was a baker from outside of Chicago. It was just like something out of a storybook, but it didn't last. Michael and Lucifer wiped out [all] technology during their fight, and the first couple days were okay, but when the food ran out, mobs and looting started happening. Death. 

Remmy: Yeah. No one ever came to save them. There was no rescue. There was no big government rescue. It was just...

Bea: Social breakdown.

Remmy: Right. That's how she describes it. She said humanity responds the same way every time: They go crazy and it all breaks down. 

Bea: Yeah. "People lose it when things go wrong," and she just has learned this to be a societal fact. Sam tries to assure her — because she does look teared-up, here, when she's reliving this memory — 

Remmy: Yeah.

Bea: "Nope. Not here," and Charlie goes, "Not yet."

Remmy: Yeah. Yeah. Sam is — not to skim over Cara — Sam is surprised that Charlie had a wife or a life partner in her universe, because his Charlie did not. Again, it's just like he's not really getting it yet.

Bea: Yeah. He just assumed that the story was the same, just he and Dean weren't in it. 

Remmy: Yeah, this is Charlie setting him straight. She tells her story and Cara, she's — Charlie said, we start this conversation with Sam saying, "I'm just saying I'm not surprised — from what I know of you, Charlie, based on my Charlie — I'm not surprised that you survived the apocalypse," and she said, "Well, I sure damn am." 

Bea: Yeah.

Remmy: "I was just a programmer, and how is it fair that I made it when so many others didn't, including Cara?" 

Bea: Yeah. [sighs] Poor girl. 

Remmy: Yeah. Yeah, lots of Charlie feels. Poor, poor Felicia.

Bea: Yeah, and that quick question that she had, "Doesn't he have other friends?" It goes back to — we talked about Dean just really struggling to have that social group there. I feel bad because Sam almost seems to give the impression that, "Well, yeah, Dean has an expanded social group now because you're here!" and Charlie's like, "We don't have that kind of relationship at all."

Remmy: Yeah. And you know, it's really hard. It's really hard for the viewer, I think. I know I had a tough time with this episode and these scenes the first time I watched it because it's _ Charlie _. 

Bea: But it's not Charlie.

Remmy: I know! [laughs] I know.

Bea: I only know this altverse Charlie, so I'm building up to the point where I actually watch the Charlie of this world. It's going to be such a — it's gonna knock me off my feet.

Remmy: It _ is _going to knock you off your feet. I could — oh my God. Now I have my face in my hands because you're the monster who recced me a couple fics where Charlie, um. We have some broken friendships with Dean and Charlie, and I just want — I just. Oh God...

Bea: It hurts to consider, that Dean lost that part of his life. And even though the writers are trying to appease us by bringing Felicia Day back in season 13, there is still this bitterness because yeah, you brought Felicia Day back, but you didn't bring _ Charlie _ back.

Remmy: I do like that they're doing that, though. I like that we're not.

Bea: I'm glad that they acknowledged it. Yeah.

Remmy: Exactly. 

Bea: They're not allowing the narrative to just play off the differences in a way that we somewhat see with Bobby. Bobby has stepped into a familiar role. Granted, he's not the one that is doling out instructions or finding the information, he's more on the outskirts, but he still seems like Bobby. Whereas Charlie, here, we're getting a moment to see ya, same face, different reactions.

Remmy: And I really did like that because that's one of my beefs with the apocalypse world characters, that we quote unquote brought back. I don't want the writers just playing off of our nostalgia and sentimentality for these characters. I appreciate the respect, like we said, the acknowledgement that these are different characters. They're not our characters.

Bea: Yeah, that there might be some — I wouldn't even say that there's any damage mitigated. There is a bit of good faith gesture here, being like, "Yeah. Okay, we f***ed up and killed Charlie. We're going to bring a Charlie back," but they're not trying to do the cup game and trick us into thinking that it's the same. As viewers, we know there's no f****** way that it's the same and you're not going to fool us otherwise, and if you try to then it's just going to be even worse. 

Remmy: Cheap. Yeah, it's cheap. Or it would be, because they don't have — these characters, these new characters, do not have our history. Like you said, it's nice to have acknowledged that. End tangent. 

Bea: Yes. We got it explicitly put out there. 

Remmy: Mhmm. 

Bea: So from there, we go back. Dean is now sitting across from Jack at [sighs] Dick's Red Rooster Diner, and they have pie showing up and he's just like, "Nope. Yep. Congrats, you found a case." 

Remmy: [laughs] Sorry. I could see your face as you said Dick's Red Rooster. 

Bea: I. [sighs] 

Remmy: Are you gonna give us this meta that you're so teasing at, or?

Bea: It's not even teasing. I'm just waiting because we're going to be talking about Harper's relationship with romance novels and all these types of things and it's going to fall into that.

Remmy: Okay. Okay, I can't wait.

Bea: No, it's — don't build this up to anything besides [chanting] dicks, dicks, dicks, dicks, dicks.

Remmy: [laughs] So, we have pie. 

Bea: Yes, and Jack is asking about courting, since all he knows is from romantic comedies, essentially. "You said that Rowena and Gabe doesn't count," and Dean's like, "Yeah, they don't count."

Remmy: They definitely don't count.

Bea: Jensen's delivery through this whole bit here is just so funny. Dean just going, "Yeah, I'll give you The Talk when we get home. But for now, we're looking for bad luck." Harper Sales, Bad Luck McGee over here. Where is she? What can we find out? What's going on?

Remmy: And freaking — you could just see Jack wanting to reach into his pocket for that notebook again. He says, "The Talk?"

Bea: Yeah, like just, "What’s that? I can hear the capital letters on that. What does that mean?" [laughs] 

Remmy: Uh-huh, and Dean says, "No, no. Harper. Let's go."

Bea: Yeah, and so Jack is speculating, “Well, maybe she's not human,” and Dean's like, well, there's basically only one way to find out, and, "Have you ever read a romance novel?" becomes the question. [laughs]

Remmy: [laughs] Because we were told that Harper — by the townspeople that we interviewed before, we were told that Harper lives in her book, essentially. So Dean heard that and is now going to play off of it.

Bea: Yes. And so at the library, Dean comes in and he's being very official, pretending to be FBI and asking Harper about Winston. She is trying to say, "I've already spoken to the police," but nope, [Dean says], "I need you to talk to me right now." Jack steps in to defend her, essentially saying, "Well, you can't arrest her, so back off."

Remmy: And, “You can't make her talk.” Yeah, so we have when Dean says, "Have you ever heard of romance novel?" we cut to this, where we have bad cop Dean and white knight Jack. So we're putting on a performance here.

Bea: Yes, but Jack takes his role a little too seriously for Dean's taste, because when Dean goes, "Back off, kid," Jack goes, "No, _ you _ back off, old man," and Dean just is physically wounded.

Remmy: [laughs] Shot right in the gut with that one. 

Bea: Yeah, just, "You took it too far. Too far."

Remmy: Talk about Jensen's...

Bea: His physical acting.

Remmy: [laughs] His face journey here, in this moment. Talk about his comedic chops, you know? I mean, I swear...

Bea: Yeah, you see that verbal punch landing. It's so funny.

Remmy: It's hilarious. Old man Dean. He did _ not _ appreciate that.

Bea: Yeah. Dean goes off to lick his wounds, essentially, and Harper is just so impressed. She calls Jack's chivalrous and she just starts swooning for him right off the bat. 

Remmy: Uh-huh.

Bea: His cover story is that Jack is looking for information about the area and oh, Harper knows just the book. Follow her. She'll go and get it from her apartment.

Remmy: Uh-huh. Wink-wink, nudge-nudge. Yeah, except.

Bea: She very earnestly isn't thinking about it to any depth. She's just straight-up as like, "Yeah! You want to know about this area?" because we heard during the interview montage that she has never really left the town. She is very dedicated to the area where she's from.

Remmy: Uh-huh. Uh-huh. And yeah, so she says, "I have the perfect book for you," and we cut to Dean sitting in his car, licking his wounds. Looking vainly — I live for vain Dean and vain Cas. I only say — I only pulled them two up as examples because, Cas especially, Cas is so vain and I love it so much. We have these moments from him where he's just — oh, I can't even. I can't.

Bea: You're gonna have to put down footnotes here, because I want to see this. I don't know if I can think of anything off the top of my head.

Remmy: It's more in seasons 11 through 13 — through now, basically. That I can call [vanity].

Bea: [laughs]

Remmy: And I know that you haven't seen half of that. So, but, I love vain Dean. [laughs]

Bea: He just is looking in the rearview mirror, trying to find assurance that no, I'm not old, and he's like, "Old man, my ass." He is doing his best to dispel the sudden fear that Jack sent as a chill through his body.

Remmy: Ohh, poor boy.

Bea: [laughs] Poor 40-year old boy.

Remmy: My son, okay?

Bea: I know. My son who is older than me.

Remmy: Yes. We're outside of the library, and a wild Marty appears.

Bea: A wild Miles.

Remmy: Miles!

Bea: Yeah. Harper and Jack are leaving to go to her apartment, but Miles shows up in protest, being like, "You just met this guy! What are you doing?"

Remmy: Yeah, and we're meant to read jealousy in this moment, but even here we have those little comedic moments where Jack — Harper is like. [laughs] Harper knows what's up. She's like, "Miles, don't ruin this for me."

Bea: Yeah. "Back off. Get your own life."

Remmy: Yeah. She says, "Miles, it's fine. This is Jack. We're just going to go get a book," and Jack puts out his hand. He says, "Hello," and [laughs] Miles just looks at him and he shakes his head like, "No. Bye."

Bea: Jack is such a sweetie. I adore him. Dean climbs out of the Impala to tail them, but Miles — who has now gone to go dump off some trash — he hears a rattling noise and then he screams. We don't see exactly what happened, but Dean turns off of his tail to go check on that, and oh my God, he finds Miles dead!

Remmy: In a pool of blood.

Bea: And frothy blood, so you knew it was from the f****** throat. 

Remmy: Uh-huh. Oh my gosh. I didn't even think about that. RIP Miles. 

Bea: Yeah. Gone too soon.

Remmy: And we're back to Sam and Charlie. 

Bea: Yeah, we end that dramatic beat. We have Sam and Charlie, and Charlie is reading all of the books. Now is when she's saying she hates hunting. She doesn't want to be a hunter. There's just a lot of tears and death when it comes to this lifestyle.

Remmy: And she's had enough of that.

Bea: Yeah. And Sam just keeps talking about _ our _Charlie. He keeps doing that.

Remmy: Yeah. Yeah. He says, "Our Charlie said something similar about hunting, but she..."

Bea: “She came around,” basically. She came to her senses. 

Remmy: Yeah. Oh my God. Oh my God, Sam, I love you, but where's your chill here, please God, Sam.

Bea: When Charlie is saying that this is her final case — after this, she is leaving to be a hermit with wi-fi on a mountain — you can just see that Sam is quite... It's almost like he's scared at the prospect of losing her again like that. “You can't leave people.” He believes that people need people. He gets into it later, but the thought that Charlie, [that] this is the last time that he's going to see her and communicate with her, he's not ready to let go, and he clearly hasn't let go of the quote-unquote our Charlie feelings that he has.

Remmy: Yeah. Well, I mean, I don't want to get too much into it because I don't want to go off on too much of a tangent, but let's look at Charlie's death in our universe. We haven't actually had a lot of the Sam and Charlie relationship through the seasons. I mean, Sam's always there but the real kinship, the real BFF bond, was definitely between Charlie and Dean. So I kind of liked this episode a lot. Even though it's not our Charlie, I liked to see Sam having some alone time with Charlie.

Bea: Yeah.

Remmy: But let's look at how our in-universe Charlie died. Sam blames himself for her death, 100%. He is the one who brought her in on the case, the Book of the Damned, that led to her death. And when we do have Charlie's hunter funeral, at the pyre Dean himself put Charlie's death entirely on Sam's shoulders. He says — I mean. Oh my God. Oh my God. Oh my God. My face is heating up with my...

Bea: [laughs] With your pent-up anger at her death?

Remmy: It's not even that, it's just — I'm thinking about Sam feels, right here, where Sam tries to give Charlie this eulogy as they're at her funeral, and as he tries to say, "I'm sorry," Dean stops him and he says, "You should be sorry because this is all on you." We just see Sam shrink in on himself and we never really addressed that, and Charlie's loss was just ripped — she was just ripped away from them and they cared so much for her. I mean, maybe this is why Sam is holding so tight onto this alt Charlie. I can totally see how it he would absolutely terrified to lose her again.

Bea: Yeah. This is a weight that he hasn't been able to let go of. This has been a guilt that has been weighing on him, and now to see a Charlie, here in the flesh, it's like a moment where he can make amends. He can try and assure himself that she's okay and that by proxy they're okay.

Remmy: I mean, I didn't even think about the Sam feels. I don't like it. I'm sad now.

Bea: [laughs] You're like, "Ow."

Remmy: Ow. Yeah, because I mean honestly, really, through this whole episode, all I see is Sam being unnecessarily pushy, but you're bringing it to me that Sam is holding on too tight because he is afraid to let go.

Bea: Yeah, Sam here is just — his brain... His heart is lagging behind his head. 

Remmy: Ohh.

Bea: He is just so emotive about being — you know, he's on a case with Charlie again! And he has to keep reminding himself this isn't the Charlie [I knew], she doesn't know me, and the more and more that he's hearing from her that this is just a job to her, she doesn't have it as a life and she wants to get out, Sam is trying to say, "I've tried doing the same stuff, Charlie, and it just doesn't work," and she's like, "You are not me."

Remmy: Yeah. 

Bea: And just that constant repetition, Sam is just having such a hard go of it.

Remmy: Well, this is where Charlie really lays down the law. She says — when Sam says, "You can try. I've tried. Hell, the other you tried and they couldn't do it, and we couldn't do it. You can't just let go that easily," this is when Charlie lays down the law and she says, "You're not me. I'm not her. This is not your life. This is not her life. This is not your choice. This is my life. And this is what I want," which I liked.

Bea: Yeah. “You don't have as much say as you wish that you did.”

Remmy: Yeah. I mean, honestly, I loved it. 

Bea: Yes. It's so — you feel for Sam, but at the same time you're rooting for Charlie.

Remmy: Absolutely that, yes.

Bea: Yeah. Okay, and scene.

Remmy: [laughs] 

Bea: We cut over to Harper's apartment, and the first thing I noticed A) it's very retro-themed and B) it is love-obsessed. 

Remmy: Oh, yeah? I saw the Amore wallmark.

Bea: Yeah, she had the Amore. She had the hearts around it. There was the mod wallpaper and the furniture. So we're getting strong vibes of A) she's into the whole romance — she is in love with and thought of being in love. 

Remmy: She's a romantic. Yeah.

Bea: And the other thing is that we're getting further cues that she is more traditional, or she's more old-fashioned in her perspective of this. So [with] those two things combined, she has old-fashioned romance feels.

Remmy: Yeah. Yeah. And walls full of books. 

Bea: Yes. Lots and lots of books, and it's only when they get to the apartment that she goes, "Oh, this was weird, wasn't it?" Like we just met [laughs]. I just met you/And this is crazy. 

Remmy: Yeah. Yeah, and she says, "I'm sorry if this is weird. I am not trying to make a move on you," and it just goes completely over [Jack's head]. Or, like you said, when Harper suggested it, she didn't have an ulterior motive here. She just knew the perfect book on the town's history that she wanted to show Jack, but then as she got to her apartment, she was like, "Oh no, this is weird," and she tries to tell Jack, "I'm not trying to make a move on you," and he's like, "What?"

Bea: Yeah, "I don't know what you mean."

Remmy: Yeah. So he also — I think they complement each other really well. I like them because — I don't know. I don't know. While Harper is almost naive in her idyllic, storybook blinders, Jack is also kind of naive in his storybook blinders. You know, he's very black and white and he frames the world in very simple terms. We even were told this earlier, when they were talking about romance — Jack and Dean were talking about romance — that, "The only thing I know of romance," says Jack, "is what I've seen on TV."

Bea: Yeah, that what Harper has learned from books, Jack has learned from movies. And so they are both experiencing the world through the lens of other people's perspectives and just absorbing those as their own. There's not really any first-hand experience that they're working with, especially for Jack.

Remmy: They're just both really cute in this scene. 

Bea: Yeah. I do really like the energy and I love how it evolves later on.

Remmy: Harper's really flustered and she goes to tidy up a little bit, or to find the book. Jack, while Harper is out of the room, he start setting up some tests.

Bea: Yeah, he's going through a hunter checklist. He's putting a silver coin on the ground. He is getting a holy water handshake ready. Dean tries calling him. He's like, “No. I'm on the case. I can't answer it right now.” And yeah, Harper returns, gives him the book. She picks up the silver coin fine. She comments on Jack's wet hand and Jack coughs out a, "Christo." 

Remmy: [laughs] And Harper says, "Are you okay?" And he says, "I'm just really nervous."

Bea: [fondly] Yeah.

Remmy: And she responds to that. It pleases her. We can see that it pleases her that, you know, Jack saying, "I'm just really flustered and nervous in this moment," she kind of bolsters herself out of her own fluster from that, because Jack here is following the script of, you know...

Bea: This dashing hero that has a secret vulnerable side.

Remmy: Yeah. Yeah. So she's reassured by this and she. [laughs] And now she has to take on her role, which is to reassure the hero of the story. I don't know.

Bea: Yeah. She starts getting to know him, but there's a quick scene of Charlie and Sam talking about the musca, and it's just basically a gross thing that they've never ever seen in real life.

Remmy: Half fly, half man.

Bea: Yeah, grossy. And Sam says, "Oh, yeah, I've read all the books," and Charlie just does this quick, "Nerd." She turns her lip up at him and everything.

Remmy: A little Charlie moment. And we get the creepy goth beekeeper.

Bea: Yeah. Yeah. The apiary outfit. This weirdo sits beside two women on the bus — or not on the bus, on the bus bench — and we're told that the musca, there is a bad egg, and the male fails to find a mate and just goes and makes a sad nest of bodies. I'm like...

Remmy: Aww.

Bea: Not 'aww' — Eugh!

Remmy: [laughs] 

Bea: I don't have sympathy. I'm sorry.

Remmy: Fair.

Bea: Sorry, not sorry.

Remmy: Fair. So well, I think Sam says, “Yeah, I know of the musca. No one's ever seen one, and if they do exist then they're pretty benign. They have their community and they keep to themselves.”

Bea: Yeah, “There's a reason why we don't see them,” except for the one loner who makes such a sad that he has to go and kill a bunch.

Remmy: To find companionship. 

Bea: Not even companionship! It's a sad nest.

Remmy: He's building a nest. He's building a sad nest because he doesn't have his own mate or his own family.

Bea: A fortress of solitude made of corpses is not a fortress of solitude. 

Remmy: That's the point!

Bea: It's just a stinky room. 

Remmy: It's a stinky room. Yes. Yeah, so. [laughs] 

Bea: I don't know. I seem to have hard levels where I'm just like, "I'm not going to read deeper. It's just not that deep. It's just gross."

Remmy: [laughs] But we're told at the end of the episode to read deeper.

Bea: We can read deeper later, but for now, I'm just saying grossy.

Remmy: Uh-huh. Grossy. Back to Jack and Harper at Harper's apartment. Harper is bringing him in, soothing the spooked horse of her —

Bea: [laughs] 

Remmy: I don't know. The object of her infatuation.

Bea: Yeah, the romantic protagonist.

Remmy: [laughs] 

Bea: And they're getting a bit of backstory out here too. Jack is saying he's from an even smaller town than she's from. He's from Lebanon, and she's like, "I've always lived here. I'm the last of my family line that lives in McCook." And Jack actually is doing his cough again. He doesn't feel that great. [He] looks over and sees this photograph of her and, we find out, with her boyfriend — her former boyfriend, Vance.

Remmy: Yeah. Yeah. We did hear about this boyfriend earlier from the townsfolk, that she had a long-term high school boyfriend who left after college. He left the town. He wanted — and Harper tells us now — he wanted to strike off from McCook and go experience the world. He wanted Harper to come with him, but she said no. "Everything that we need is here."

Bea: Yeah, she was happy with her world of books, and since then she's been perpetually single. Him leaving was the beginning of her bad luck, according to her. 

Remmy: Yep.

Bea: But both Jack and Harper are like, "We just try and stay positive!" They just want to be optimists about their lives. And Jack says, "Trying to be positive can be so hard," and there's this little romantic moment that you can feel building and it's broken by Dean texting in all caps, _ CALL ME NOW _.

Remmy: Well, I mean. So, this little note on optimism. Harper is telling her story and Jack is connecting with her in a real way. So yeah, we do actually feel something real, past this performance of Jack the “white knight” of earlier, happening here. 

Bea: Yeah, and you can see she's actually forming a connection too, because there's been two guys that we've seen on-screen this episode that have been trying to have romantic advances with her, and she has just politely turned them both down. Now all of a sudden, [vapid voice] "Oh my gosh, Jack you're so different!"

Remmy: [laughs] Yes.

Bea: We get another great comedic beat here, of Harper going, "Do you believe in love at first sight?" and Jack going, "Do you mind if I use your bathroom?"

Remmy: [laughs] Yeah.

Bea: [laughs] 

Remmy: Yes.

Bea: Oh, the poor kid. Again, talk about reading social cues. He is struggling.

Remmy: Yeah, because he got a call. No. No, he got a text from Dean that said, _ Call me now. _

Bea: Yes, and so he goes to the bathroom to answer it.

Remmy: Uh-huh. Uh-huh.

Bea: Jack calls him and assures [Dean], "Okay. Harper's not a demon," and Dean's just, "Where are you?" Dean has lost the tail since he went to go check on dead Miles, and so now, "Jack, where are you? Come on, we got to meet up," and Jack is just not even really in the conversation. He's going, "I'm 99% sure she's in love with me," and Dean's just, "Not how it works, kid. Get back on the page."

Remmy: [laughs] Uh-huh. Yeah, Jack is absolutely distracted. Dean's trying to reel him in and he says, "I guarantee you that she is not in love with you. Hey, hey, hey," just snapping in his face, "focus."

Bea: Yeah, “Calm down.”

Remmy: And [Jack] injects this, "Uh-huh, uh-huh, uh-huh. Well, so, in case she is, I need to know everything you know about sex: Go."

Bea: Yes. "I need to know everything about sex: Go." And the way that he says is just, again, Alex, kudos to you. You have some great chops that are just coming out here.

Remmy: We do, yeah. Everyone was really good with their comedic timing. It was so good.

Bea: Yeah, and it's this conversation here that they start coming around, getting closer to the theory. They're going, "Maybe she's cursed," or, "Maybe the guys that are around her cursed," and Jack is like, "Guys like me?"

Remmy: Uh-huh. Uh-huh. There's — yeah. So we're thinking, "Okay. There's obviously something that is preying on the men specifically around Harper," and [laughs] Jack has an _ uh-oh _ moment, but before we can expand on it, Dean is... attacked?

Bea: Yeah, we get the point of view of the attacker and we don't know what happens to Dean after that. So Jack hangs up. He goes out back to the main living room, and Harper is just double-checking. She is certain that she's freaked Jack out. She says even that she can be intense. "And do you just want to go out for coffee?"

Remmy: Yeah. Yeah. She says, “Oh, oh God. I came off too strong."

Bea: Yes, “I'm going to try to backpedal here.” Cool, cool, cool, cool.

Remmy: Uh-huh. Uh-huh and before — Oh, so she says, "Do you want to go out for coffee?" And Jack says, "I don't know, because I just heard my partner get ambushed and thrown into the dirt by something and the call cut off," and I just don't really know what to do right now because I'm just an infant.

Bea: Yeah, and then boom — Dean breaks in. He barricades the door, and he's like, "I'm here to save you from _ that _." 

Remmy: [laughs] 

Bea: There's so many times in these later seasons where they just give up the goose. They stop pretending to be FBI or whatever, they're like, "Okay. Yeah. Here's the real s*** that's going on. Come on. Come on, catch up. We — press A, we don't have time."

Remmy: Uh-huh. Uh-huh. So, a random man bursts into Harper's house. Harper's freaked the f*** out, and Jack is trying to reassure her, "No. No, I'm with him. It's okay. We're here to help," and while Dean is trying to barricade the door, he's like, "Yes, we're here to save you and maybe some lives, and we're protecting you from —" bam, something is crashing door "— that."

Bea: Dean is going through the details. "At first I thought it was a ghost," and Harper: "A ghost?" and Jack: "It's not a ghost." "But then I thought —" then Dean sees the photograph of Vance "— this guy. This guy right here. How did he die?" and Harper: "I think he's in Connecticut..." [laughs] 

Remmy: "Die?? What are you talking about?"

Bea: And again, there's this great — you can hear the punctuation at the end of this. They go, "Vance? _ Vance? _ Vance!" [laughs] 

Remmy: Yeah! I know.

Bea: All three of them just saying Vance's name.

Remmy: Yeah, because the banging outside the door, the whatever this is outside the door, says, "Harper!"

Bea: And Dean recognizes, "Okay, so it's not a living thing, but it is a person. It must be a zombie," and so Dean is doing something quick training with Jack in that moment. He's like, "Okay, the only way we can keep these guys down is with silver." He goes and equips him and Jack with these little knives, like a letter opener.

Remmy: Yeah. Well, he has a letter opener and he gave Jack a switchblade. But I loved the little season 13 callback, where Dean claps Jack on the shoulder and he's like, "Okay, you finally get your zombie." [laughs]

Bea: Yes. He's like, "Look, kid. I know you weren't expecting me to fulfill this promise, but here you go." [laughs]

Remmy: Zombie! Here's how we hurt it. 

Bea: Yeah. Vance breaks in and Dean says for Jack to get her out of there. And then, "Hey, Archie, let's dance," and starts fighting. 

Remmy: I have never felt so validated! So when I was watching it the first time, and this time, the door bursts open in a shower of splinters and we have this zombie jock. He's got a red Letterman on, the red, slicked-back hair. He's very 50s.

Bea: Yes.

Remmy: And I was like, "Ey, it's Archie!" 

Bea: [laughs]

Remmy: And as he bursts through the door, and then when he actually starts to tango with Dean in this fight — because this Vance charges at Dean — Dean says, "Hey, Archie, over here. Look at me. Let's go," and I was like, "_ Yess _." I pinned the pop culture reference before Dean did. Ha Ha Ha.

Bea: We're pop culture bros.

Remmy: Pop culture bros!

Bea: Pat on the back and kudos.

Remmy: Sorry, I never get any of Dean's references. So I felt validated on that one. So yeah. "Hey, Archie, let's go."

Bea: And then [Vance] knocks him into the bookcase and there's books all over the floor.

Remmy: Jack gets Harper out of there. 

Bea: Yeah. And while that fight is going on, we cut back to Charlie, who is reading. Sam is just — he can't bite his tongue. He's saying, "You can't quit hunting. You can't live alone."

Remmy: Oh my God. Oh my God.

Bea: "People need people, and it's not easy to walk away from life." We touched on this already. I don't know if we need to go over it again, but she is adamant that she is not his Charlie. It's her life, and Charlie wants to just go after this guy.

Remmy: Yeah, I pretty much mashed up the last scene with this scene, in that this is where she says those things. She says, "You don't have a say in what I want."

Bea: Yeah.

Remmy: My only note on the scene is, "Sam, _ stop _."

Bea: [laughs] I liked the argument that Sam and Charlie have about [how they] can't just go tackle the guy because he's dressed like a weirdo. She's like, "Can't we?" 

Remmy: [laughs] 

Bea: “Just because he's into weird fashion, we can't do this? No, I feel like I'm right.”

Remmy: Yeah, yeah.

Bea: And yeah, the bus drives by the bus stop. It intercepts their vision, and when it drives off the weird costume[d figure] and the guy who was sitting beside them are gone, but they can see that the victim is being dragged off, and so they go to pursue.

Remmy: Yep. 

Bea: And returning back to Harper, Jack stops running because she pulls on him. She's just asking, "What is happening?" and he's like, "No, we gotta keep moving." Dean is fighting with Vance. He lifts up this chair and is just goading Vance on to come tackle him, but Vance just leaves. [laughs] 

Remmy: Yeah. Yeah. Vance straightens and has this look of — kind of a reset. And as much as Dean is trying to taunt Vance, here, Vance seems to remember, "Oh. This is not who I'm after in this moment."

Bea: Yeah. "I don't actually care about you."

Remmy: Yeah. “Bye.” He dips out.

Bea: And then Harper is back at the library. She's fumbling with her keys, and it's such a cliche little move there, basically just juggling her keys in her hands. "None of these darn-fangled things will work!" and then Jack just opens the door. He's like, "You forgot you hadn't locked the library, right? You were going to come back."

Remmy: [laughs] Yeah, yeah, because we had — Harper had told Martin earlier that — 

Bea: Miles.

Remmy: Augh. I did Marty. I did Martin. Now I got — okay. Miles. [laughs]

Bea: [laughs]

Remmy: Anyways. [laughs] I'm glad you're on top of it. This is knock-off Zachary Quinto all over again.

Bea: I was gonna say, we don't have a knock-off version of this guy, do we?

Remmy: [laughs] Yeah, Harper said, "I'm gonna lock up. I'm gonna just run to my apartment real quick. I'll lock up later." And Jack says — he opens the door as she's fumbling for her keys — "It's unlocked. You said you were going to lock it later," and she rolls her eyes and she's like, [sarcastic] "Yeah, I'm sorry. Apparently my dead boyfriend is trying to kill me. I forgot!"

Bea: Yes.

Remmy: She was so snarky in that moment, I loved it.

Bea: It was wonderful. Yeah. I just have written down here, _ snarky Harper _.

Remmy: [laughs] And so they push into the library and they — yeah.

Bea: Yeah, they go bunker down behind a desk. And meanwhile, Sam and Charlie are trying to look for where this victim has been taken. They see this door that Charlie swears she checked before, it was locked earlier, but now it's covered in goo. They do a quick rundown. "Okay, how do we kill muscas? Okay, brass nail with sugar water? Great. We got none of those things. We'll have to get creative.”

Remmy: "Let's improvise." And they push into this — 

Bea: Smelly fortress of solitude. 

Remmy: [strained] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's just a warehouse-y looking industrial building. They go down some stairs. There are flies everywhere.

Bea: And why are there fly traps? I wonder, because I mean — Musca. Okay. You're a fly hybrid and I'm assuming that maybe you got some kinship with flies. But at the same time, you laid out a whole bunch of traps like, "Okay, guys. You guys aren't paying rent. There's too many of y'all. So you gotta leave."

Remmy: Fly traps everywhere, but also there's pine air fresheners everywhere. So maybe it's the fly side fighting with the human side of this hybrid creature. You know, he is self-conscious about his filth and his smell. 

Bea: Yeah, he'd be aware that if the smell or the degree of flies that are in here got out, then the cat's out of the bag. But I'm still like, _ question mark question mark _.

Remmy: The one thing I loved about this scene was... So we go into this room, and I'm sure that they did not actually throw Jared and Felicia into a room that was full of flies. But.

Bea: F***, no.

Remmy: [laughs] 

Bea: We know from the first [season] when they filmed "Bugs" that it was really difficult to try and pick up bees on-screen. So I'm telling you right away, I'm quite certain that 99% of what was going on in here was CGI flies. 

Remmy: Oh for sure, but I did love both Sam and Charlie in this scene, as they're actually trying to case this building that they just entered. We have prissy, princess Sam freaking out over the bugs. It's like, "Oh, I have a bug in my hair!" He's swatting. He can't hold his gun straight because he's too busy waving it in front of his face because he's got flies!

Bea: And I'm like, relatable content right here. If a fly f****** touches me — if I walk into a room and it's full of flies, I'm walking right back out.

Remmy: [laughs] But we have [Sam] versus consummate professional Charlie, who is totally focused. No...

Bea: Yeah. She's got her game face on. She's getting this done. 

Remmy: Yeah, no swatting at the nasties on this. She's got her sights set on the prize.

Bea: And there's this unintentional split-up that they do, where Charlie sees the nest up ahead and she's going to go look at it, whereas Sam has been distracted offside and finds this suitcase that's full of air fresheners. He smells the rags and oh, yep, chloroform. That's how this musca has been capturing the victims. 

Remmy: Yeah.

Bea: Charlie at the nest says that the victim is still alive, and when she's checking him out she gets grabbed by the musca inside of this nest. She struggles, she escapes, but she falls hard onto the ground from escaping, and she's knocked out by this. 

Remmy: Oh, that poor stuntwoman. I'm like, ow.

Bea: Yeah, rough hit there. Woof.

Remmy: Yeah. And Sam takes a minute too long, I think, to be like, "... Charlie? Did something happen back there?" but he gets with the program and he rushes over to see what's wrong, and the musca rises from the bodies...

Bea: And goes and attacks him. 

Remmy: Uh-huh. Uh-huh. 

Bea: Sam gets gooed during this fight. 

Remmy: We see the creature outside of the goth beekeeper outfit, and it is just...

Bea: Yeah, that mask is off and it is [singing] _ attractive _.

Remmy: [laughs] We have fly man. It's just a man with a fly's head. I thought this whole scene — okay, two thoughts. Someone had way too much fun with the _ All Saints Day _ episode. 

Bea: [laughs] 

Remmy: And we just have that same great — I'm not complaining, I'm not complaining — we have that same great humor and that same...

Bea: Level of awareness. 

Remmy: Well, what is that movie? I cannot remember the movie but it's just like _ The Creature from the Black Lagoon _, fly, 1970s...

Bea: Is it Jeff Goldblum, when he devolves into the fly — like, the literal movie, _ The Fly _? 

Remmy: Yeah. No, I think there is a movie that is, you know, someone splices his body with a fly and he's this horrible half fly-monster. It looked exactly like that if you know what I mean.

Bea: [stage whispers] It's Jeff Goldblum in _ The Fly _.

Remmy: [mock-whispers] Yeah, you — okay. You got it. [laughs] I didn't know!

Bea: _ A brilliant but eccentric scientist begins to transform into a giant man/fly hybrid after one of his experiments goes horribly wrong _.

Remmy: [laughs] Someone's Googling.

Bea: I'm like, it's Jeff Goldblum, b****. I should know this. 

Remmy: [laughs] Yeah, exactly. That's what I'm saying. It's the same _ Halloween _, David Yaeger, Michael Meyers...

Bea: Yeah. We are mining the 80s and we are in reveling in its monsters. 

Remmy: Actually, actually, another very strong vibe that I got from this monster of the week was _ Doctor Who _.

Bea: Yeah?

Remmy: I don't actually watch _ Doctor Who _ but I got a _ Doctor Who _ monster vibe from both this fly man and his community that we actually don't see until later, but it's fine. 

Bea: Yeah, I don't have that reference. So I'm going to take your word for granted. 

Remmy: Ehh, maybe I'll get a Tumblr ask that will school me on both Jeff Goldblum's fly man and _ Doctor Who's _ own monsters of the week.

Bea: Yeah, if there's something similar in other media then by all means let us know because we're grasping here. [laughs]

Remmy: [laughs] 

Bea: Yeah. Eugh. Sam gets gooed. Charlie wakes up and stabs the musca, and then Sam shoots it dead.

Remmy: Charlie gets gooed.

Bea: And Charlie gets gooed. And it's all a gross scene here, lads.

Remmy: [laughs] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So apparently we didn't need, specifically, a brass nail dipped in sugar water to kill this creature. We improvise, which is a very, you know, it's a callback to one episode previous when Dean did the same thing. I just think it's so funny. It's just like you said, this awareness of the show and yeah, you might have to stab it through the heart with a blade dipped in lamb's blood, but blow out its kneecap [and] it's gonna — you can't walk. 

Bea: Yeah, guns still hurt.

Remmy: Guns still hurt.

Bea: It really made me think of season 2 of _ Buffy [the Vampire Slayer] _, where there is The Judge that is being resurrected and pieced together, and no known weapon to man can destroy this thing. They're reading the lore and it's like, oh, well, we're hooped, but [laughs] Buffy with a bazooka is like, "Turns out that technology has updated since these books were last written, and guns are effective. Who knew?"

Remmy: [laughs] That's really funny.

Bea: So it's the same idea with the musca. No one has ever met one of these things in-person, but it's very difficult to find a thing that a gun won't kill.

Remmy: I love it. Yes.

Bea: Yes. It's wonderful. 

Remmy: So we got to — the musca's down. We saved bench bus guy and — bus bench guy. [laughs] And, you know, it was a gross save the day but we have saved the day. Charlie is not thrilled with the goo in her hair. I would not be either.

Bea: No. Sam's not thrilled with the goo in _ his _ hair.

Remmy: Exactly, exactly. But we're back to Harper and Jack and the library, and like you said, bunkered down behind a desk. It's dark, it's creepy, and we have a zombie roaming the streets.

Bea: Yes. So Harper, Jack; hiding behind desk. Zombie — question mark — Vance outside. Vance is doing his patrols and Harper is asking Jack, "Are you sure you locked the door?" And he's like, [strained] "Yeah, I'm pretty sure," and she's like, "What about the thingy under the door?" 

Remmy: [laughs] And hey, I have messed with those locks before that. She ain't playing. "Did you flip the switch under the lock?" and he injected just like, "What switch??"

Bea: Oh, they're just riddles, they're mystery enigma things. I don't blame him for not getting it, but the fact that Harper gets up to quote unquote fix it... He was definitely like, "Come back!"

Remmy: Yeah, again, we have White Knight Jack. He says, "No, no," because Harper — "No, it's not safe." But Harper goes to the door and she's caught out. 

Bea: Yes. As opposed to firmly locking the door, she actually opens it. Jack slowly stands up and is like, “What are you doing??” And Vance comes in, and Harper gives him a big kiss. 

Remmy: Aww. I felt really bad about it because it was like betrayal. 

Bea: Yeah, and it is such a _ great twist _ too. I'm like, good job, Yockey, for giving us this, because up to this point you really were rooting — you thought Harper was the heroine.

Remmy: Uh-huh.

Bea: We are following the storybooks script up to this point and then, lo and behold, our heroine isn't a heroine at all. She's just like, "What? He's my boyfriend."

Remmy: Yeah! And talk about a good twist. We were not expecting that. 

Bea: No, they really led us to believe that Harper was this small town girl who lost her first love and it's just tragic backstory abound, you know. She just has bad luck and all the boys around her seem to die.

Remmy: Yeah. Yeah, but no.

Bea: And then we flipped the script. 

Remmy: Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Now Harper is — well, we're going to get her little backstory. But yeah, she is obviously in cahoots with the Archie character. Now I can't think of him as anything but, but...

Bea: [laughs] Yeah, our Letterman-toting zombie, Vance. [Harper says,] "He just gets a little jealous," and Jack is like, "He's been stalking you!" and she's like, "No, no, no. He's been stalking _ you _ ." You know, because he has to eat. "Stupid magic." And this actress, she's playing a villain of the week, but she is _ killing it _. She's throwing her all into it.

Remmy: I. Love. Her.

Bea: She's selling it so well, I adore her, too. And I love that — I mean, spoilers — she lives at the end of this episode and there's the potential to see her maybe next season. If not, she can live on in fanfiction. 

Remmy: I love her so much. And also I love that we're not killing every monster of the week. You know, we had the same thing with — I'm sorry. Not killing every monster of the week, but we are not killing everyone always. [laughs] So I'm equating this...

Bea: Yeah, each storyline doesn't necessarily wrap up tidily within the episode. I mean, they're wrapped up, but not by the use of death as a mechanism to stop that story. 

Remmy: Yeah. I'm equating this to how I felt about the end of the _ All Saints Day _ episode, where we have Sam and Dirk — Samantha and Dirk — and I'm like, I want them because I like them, and even though we have this — and even last week with Sasha, we loved that character as a character of the week. I'm just like, bring them back. I'm here for it.

Bea: Yeah, when you're mentioning that, I'm immediately thrown back to season 13, I think it was episode 3, where there was Mia Farrow. She was the shifter who was doing therapy for her patients, and she lived to see the day. So there's — I wouldn't know to say whether or not it is new, but it is refreshing to see that.

Remmy: It is new though, which is the sad thing but also the really great thing.

Bea: Villains, good guys, our side characters, they get to live and they know more about this world now too. And yeah, Harper is just essentially saying, "Yeah, everything works out for me and Vance. It just doesn't work out for _ you _." 

Remmy: Yeah, she says, again, looking at life as a fairytale or a story, she just says, "It's first love. What are you going to do? First love is eternal."

Bea: Jack is running through the stacks in this library, trying to hide from Vance, and meanwhile Harper's gone onto the intercom to just keep on talking to him. 

Remmy: Uh-huh.

Bea: Being like, you know, she really likes Jack but he's a hunter, obviously, and she's from a long line of necromancers. She can only mostly raise the dead, but, "This is first love. It has no baggage. It's the most perfect love that you could have," and Vance, she says, is perfect and that she's happy Miles died. She's just sad that she couldn't watch it. I'm like, this is such a good villain beat!

Remmy: I know, yes. Yes. Yes, we have the villain monologuing but it's good. It's so in-tune with her character as we know it, because when before she was the storybook romantic...

Bea: Damsel. 

Remmy: Yeah, romantic damsel, exactly. Here, she is the storybook villain and it's so good. She is just living her best life and I love her.

Bea: Yeah. She's just unapologetically herself. And that "herself" seems to be someone who was willing to kill her boyfriend because he wanted to move and she wasn't going to, so too bad, so sad, we're staying together. "Because our first love is just uncomplicated, right?" This is just how we keep it uncomplicated.

Remmy: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. I also liked the library hide-and-seek, right? Because as Harper is telling her story here, we are cutting back and forth from Harper to Jack and Archie — f*** — Vance.

Bea: [laughs] 

Remmy: In the stacks and it's so _ Scooby-Doo _ . I love it so much, because it's just like every time we cut to Vance and — I was going to call him Archie again, you know I was — and Jack, Jack is hiding under a table or just peeking around a stack in the same moment that Vance rounds the corner. It's, like I said, very _ Scooby-Doo _. It was good. 

Bea: Yes. Harper, when she finishes her monologue, she just leaves Vance to it. She pulls up one of her romance novels and she starts reading, and poor Jack is hiding behind this pillar within the library, or one of the ends of the stacks, and this hand reaches out and grabs his mouth. He's startled but he doesn't scream because it's Dean! Dean has showed up.

Remmy: Yep.

Bea: Again, I love the energy that Dean is giving off in this moment. He is going into this very teacherly mode where he's like, "The way that you got to get these guys, you gotta get them back to the grave. You gotta put a silver stake through their heart." He just is very quiet but he's giving Jack the information he needs, yeah.

Remmy: Yeah, and I liked Dean's energy also, in that he's always kind of like, "We got this. This is fun. This is fine."

Bea: Yeah, as the viewer we're feeling more on Jack's side, which is this is all new and surprising and overwhelming, and yet we have Dean here to be the reassurance, the mentor to Jack. "No, no. No, we got a handle on this. We just need to figure out what we're doing."

Remmy: And he's falling into it so well, too. I don't even think that he knows that he's doing it, but he is just going into this mentor mode so _ good _. I don't know. It's — I don't know, I don't have the words for it. But I want to say that it calls me to John a little bit. [laughs] And I am not going to John, I'm not, I promise, but — 

Bea: You got 20 seconds.

Remmy: It calls me to John a little bit, where John was a drill sergeant, but think about when Sam came up into hunting behind Dean coming up into hunting. Maybe, you know, John is John, who wouldn't — I can't see him taking the time to stop and explain. But think about Dean, with his little brother Sam, when Sam was old enough to hunt. I absolutely — especially with John as a third — I absolutely see Dean being Sam's support, and I think he's falling back into that role.

Bea: Yeah. I really think that it's an instinctive thing for Dean right here, because he would have done his best to protect Sam from this world, but when it came time for Sam to know about it, then Dean was the one to try and soften the truth and — 

Remmy: Make it a game.

Bea: — metabolize it. Make something that was palatable, something that was soft. Something that didn't hit him so sharply as it would have Dean, to the point that Dean was rocked out of his world.

Remmy: Like you said, we are — Well, like _ I _ said, Dean alone with John, John would not have been offering that support. Let's see Dean turn it around when Sam was coming up and actually retrospectively looking back on how Dean learned and saying, "Well, this is how I wished I would have learned."

Bea: Yeah, there's two ways he could have approached this. That, "Well, I went through this, so you have to go through it too," and there's the, "I went through this, and I don't want you to have to also."

Remmy: Augh.

Bea: And that's where Dean is falling on that side.

Remmy: Augh! We're not talking John — wait, but I was also going to say. But like what you said, where we are viewing this episode primarily through Jack's perspective, this is all overwhelming but Dean is...

Bea: He's the steady hand. 

Remmy: He's the steady hand. Yes.

Bea: Yeah, and we don't often get to see Dean as the mentor, and I just really relished in seeing it here.

Remmy: And it was almost a game. I don't know. I don't know. I don't think it was that flippant, but it was — again, just the tone of the episode is very comedic, so we can kind of view the hunt as comedy.

Bea: Light, yeah.

Remmy: Yeah, light, but...

Bea: And Dean has the plan. He knows that it's silver through the heart at the grave, and Jack's like, "Why do you have your shotgun?" "Oh, this is for something else."

Remmy: [laughs] 

Bea: And then here, we see Jack and Dean fall back into this role-playing thing that they had earlier, where Jack is now saying that maybe it was love at first sight, and, "I'm not afraid, and we could have a real life together." He's evoking the image of marriage and children, all of these things that Harper would adore. 

Remmy: Yeah.

Bea: Like, "I would stay. I would never try and leave," and Vance just shows up as the jealous boyfriend role, now.

Remmy: Right, right.

Bea: As was mentioned before, but nope, "She's mine," and [Vance] f****** tackles Jack off-screen.

Remmy: Truly, because — Yeah. Sorry to interrupt. [laughs] Because Jack is playing this as — playing against everything that Archie — it's not f****** Archie! [laughs] 

Bea: Vance. [laughs] 

Remmy: Everything that Vance might fear. That, you know, "I can give you all the things that Vance can't. I could give you the picturesque wedding. I'm alive and he's dead, and don't you..."

Bea: Yeah, we could walk down the street together. 

Remmy: Yeah, we can have children and a family.

Bea: And walked down the aisle together!

Remmy: [laughs] And it's just a performance, but Archie falls for it bait, line, and sinker. 

Bea: Yep. Yep, g'bye. And then it's Dean who steps out once Jack has taken the fall. Vance starts coming after him and Dean's on his back foot. He's backing up as he's talking, but he's running through how this isn't love, not anymore, and it's just devolved into this sick game between Harper and Vance. And, "Do you really enjoy it anymore?" He's really calling out, you know, this is probably gotten old hat for at least Harper, but Vance maybe doesn't have as advanced needs in this relationship.

Remmy: [laughs] So Jack's play against Vance failed, and now Dean is making his own play. 

Bea: Well, I wouldn't even say failed, but Vance came after Jack so Vance revealed where his positioning was. Jack would have been going down the main aisle where they have the most space, and now Dean can come out from the woodworks and grab Vance's attention, and start luring him back to the location where they're trying to drag him.

Remmy: Yeah.

Bea: Because as Dean's saying these things, he's going back to this area of architecture where there's some piping. When Vance's up close on Dean, Jack comes around and gets a silver handcuff around one arm. Dean grabs the other, and then they have Vance essentially pinned in the archway of this hall in the library.

Remmy: And Harper, who is standing right in front of them, is one part, "No fair!" and one part, "No, Vance! My love!'

Bea: Yeah, she's playing the script, but she doesn't see them [following] it and she's irritated by it.

Remmy: Uh-huh. Yeah.

Bea: But she vamooses, and Dean does a good ol', "Son of a bitch!"

Remmy: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, because we we finally lock down Vance and Dean says, "Now the girl," except we could practically — if this was a cartoon, we would see that library door swaying on its hinges.

Bea: Yeah, she'd just be [cartoon running noises].

Remmy: [laughs] Yeah, yeah. She's gone.

Bea: Yeah. So that is the denouement for Vance, at least in this moment. We return to Charlie and Sam, and they're driving, this time, in the truck; the case is over. The victim is at the hospital, and he has a headache but he'll be alright, it's better than being killed. 

Remmy: Yeah, and when typically we end at the episode on the Sam-Dean Impala broment, we instead get a Sam-Charlie broment. 

Bea: Wake-up call. Not even a broment, just a wake-up call. [laughs] 

Remmy: [laughs] Well, so I started — when, you know, Sam being Sam, just can't keep it in. He has to push...

Bea: And he thinks he's being subtle. He's doing this veiled conversation. "Oh, I feel bad for the musca. He didn't have to be alone." And Charlie's like, "Your f****** metaphor sucks, boo." 

Remmy: [laughs] So she calls him out on his... [laughs] 

Bea: Yeah. She's like, "I'm not alone. I found love. I lost it. And it just f****** sucks." This is the scene where I started thinking about the parallels we are invited to think about when it comes to Dean and Jack's storyline versus Sam and Charlie's storyline. Harper and her whole ploy is about following a script, you know. These are the books that she reads, these are the lives that she idealizes, and so she would just love it if life followed the plot denouement, the climax — all of these elements. And then we almost see a narrative twist with her, that she's actually the villain. So that side of the storyline is definitely playing with literary elements and just relishing in subverting them too. And now, when we go back to Sam and Charlie, Sam is trying to follow that same idea. That there [are these] themes to follow.

Remmy: Second chance.

Bea: Yeah, there's these elements to your life that transcend the day-to-day. Charlie keeps on trying to go, "No, life is not a story. Bad s*** happens, and these themes that you're trying to pull out from it aren't there. There's just different perspectives that you can bring to it, and you might be trying to write one story with my tale, but I'm telling you that I'm doing a completely different story from my end.”

Remmy: These themes being twofold; one in that, you can't — Sam is telling Charlie, "You can't just go off on a mountain and live as a hermit with wi-fi, because people need people. You're just not going to be happy there. You need family."

Bea: And people can be bad, but that is when they're desperate. If we can help people avoid getting to that point then they can help pay that forward. "Us doing this work, living this life, we are helping to protect the good things that we're so scared of losing."

Remmy: Yeah, that's two, where you can't just walk away from this life because you would be step-by-step subverting that narrative. Humanity does not devolve into chaos if they have the tools to protect themselves. 

Bea: Yeah, the elements of society can shore up against that vision that you have of it.

Remmy: Yeah. Yeah, and you can do a bit of good with every step, and hunt, and person that you save. 

Bea: And I think that it is Sam finally bringing it to this level that is outside of Charlie, and outside of his experiences with Charlie — where Sam is just talking about hunting — that now Charlie is able to kind of [see] okay, here's some neutral ground that we could go to. It's no longer [Charlie] feeling constantly this shadow of "your Charlie" upon me. “Now you are talking about some things that I can see and I can find some agreement in.” So Charlie just ends on ceding some ground, saying that she will think about staying.

Remmy: Yeah. Yeah, which is a huge victory for Sam. You see it in his face.

Bea: Yeah. He's just very glad at the prospect of, you know, "Charlie's not going to be gone from my life for good, again."

Remmy: "This is not the end." Yeah.

Bea: And from this scene, we get a song starting playing up, about talking about going down two different roads. And there's this 50s diner that Harper is sitting in, and she's writing a letter to Jack. 

Remmy: [laughs]

Bea: Just like, "Sorry I'm going to have to kill you, but it'll be perfect, I swear. And you know what? You're the first guy that ever got me to actually leave McCook. So this is true love."

Remmy: Yeah. Yeah. She is, like you said, a woman who is in love with the idea of love. She is living her story and I am here for it. I love it. 

Bea: Yeah, she's literally going after her story. She's thinking, "What would be next for me if this was a storybook?"

Remmy: The handwritten note, I like it.

Bea: Yeah, and it is addressed to just "Jack Smith in Lebanon" and it's a small enough town. I mean, if Sam and Dean have a post office box set up — and we know they do from episode 13 this season, they are set up as the Campbells there — so you never know, that letter might actually get to him.

Remmy: And you were talking about Harper's old-fashioned views on romance and just life in general. She's at Cafe 50s.

Bea: Yep. She's seeking out these old, traditional elements.

Remmy: Checkered floors. She grew up in this idyllic town. She'd lived this idyllic life, prom queen, and it was only when something didn't go according to her plan — her high school sweetheart didn't want to stick around, and she just wasn't good enough — that she had to course-correct. She had to take action to course-correct her story.

Bea: Yeah, she kind of broke the script and brought him back.

Remmy: Yeah. Yeah.

Bea: So, finally, Dick's Red Rooster Diner. 

Remmy: [laughs] Oh, is this what we get to hear about Dean and the glass c***s? Let's see it.

Bea: I mean, we could talk about it, yeah. Essentially, what I was thinking about is we have the two diners that are here. And the first one was Winston's favorite place. When we were at the Red Rooster Diner, we were getting a lot of conversations where Jack is getting his eyes opened to more of the intricacies that come with sex and relationships and things like that. It's this very brass-tacks sort of view that's coming. Even Wanda is coming in being like, "Not all the time do you gotta do courtship. Sometimes you just skip straight to the bangin'," and — [sighs] Dean pushing aside the glass c***. 

Remmy: [laughing]

Bea: Woof. Okay. But, so here are these two diners. Here was Winston's favorite place, where we got all of this sort of — I would just... I don't think it, but this "vulgar" view on courtship and dating, where it just comes out more of the, "Well, not everything goes out according to script." And then we end with Harper in what we could perceive as being her sort of place that she wants to be. It is just these old school romance [tropes], like a malt shop, sharing milkshakes, sorta feels that she is appealing to.

Remmy: I love it. 

Bea: So yeah, as much fun as I sit here just going "Dick's Red Rooster Diner"...

Remmy: [laughs] 

Bea: Those are things that I'm picking up from it. Just, here is the red-blooded, "There ain't no special story behind it, fam," take on love and romance, and then we see Harper at her diner.

Remmy: Rose-tinted glasses.

Bea: Exactly. 

Remmy: Yeah. Yeah, I love it! Okay, this — I swear, once an episode. There's always this one thing that you pick out of the story that I'm just like, hearts in my eyes. 

Bea: [laughs]

Remmy: I want to get down on one knee. Will you be my Supernatural wife? I swear to God.

Bea: [laughing]

Remmy: I guess you already are.

Bea: Yeah, yeah. We're already pretty tightly in this together. [laughs] And I'm so excited for season 15, by the way!

Remmy: I know!

Bea: Our episodes are going to change, it's no longer going to be us like, "Okay, let's do analysis." It's gonna be like [garbled noise].

Remmy: [laughing]

Bea: “Here's word vomit. Let's just go crazy.” It's gonna be so good.

Remmy: It's gonna be so good. 

Bea: Oh, I'm excited. Yep, yep.

Remmy: I know, and I'm in like — this right here, this moment right here? I mean, this moment of camaraderie between us, right? This is exactly what I was feeling at the top of this episode where I was like, "Every single episode so far, in this season, has been _ so good _."

Bea: Yeah, and it's just so much fun to sit down and be like, did you see that? Did you see that?

Remmy: Yeah. I know, right? What the f*** is the show?

Bea: Okay, and did you catch the way we transition from Harper into Jack?

Remmy: Yeah!

Bea: Harper's sipping from her cup and then Jack is putting down his coffee cup.

Remmy: Ah, and he says, "So I had a question about courting..." and Dean pours a whiskey, he's like, "All right, let's go." [laughs]

Bea: Yeah, Jack is letting us know that the plotline with Vance is wrapped up now. They have him staked in his grave and that's just how you deal with it. Dean's like, "Yep. Let's snap that cap off the whiskey. Let's go." Jack, he does the cute little, "And that's... love?"

Remmy: Oh my God.

Bea: And Dean right here! He just — I'm like, Dean's face journey. He just goes, "It can get crazier than that."

Remmy: [groaning] Yeah. So. Yeah.

Bea: And he's almost this happy nostalgia about it. Just wistful.

Remmy: So yeah, Jack asks, "So that's love?" and Dean just — you can see him reminiscing or really considering what is love. [sings] _ His face journey _. And he says, "yeah, sometimes love can get crazier than that." It's almost like this parent... It's just [a] quintessential parent [moment], sitting down for The Talk. 

Bea: Like, "Aww, they're growing up so fast." Just that sort of smile, that sort of glow that comes at the thought.

Remmy: It's the glow of — it's the glow of, "I've experienced —" like, oh, the good old days. "These are things that I experienced. Oh, they grow up so fast." Chuck them on the chin. Like, "Oh, my boy."

Bea: I was like, what is Dean envisioning at this moment? Because I remember the Dean/Cas side of the fandom being like, "Yeah, there's been 10 years of crazy romance going on there." [laughs] 

Remmy: Well, we know Dean's entire romantic history, right? We know about his loves. We know about Cassie and Lisa and _ question mark, question mark, question mark _.

Bea: We know the background little bits where there's Rhonda, there's been the twins. I don't remember the name, but they were mentioned last season.

Remmy: No, they weren't given names. [laughs] Oh, actually no, you're right. They were given names.

Bea: Just a last name.

Remmy: But _ love _, you know. Think about what Dean said earlier in the episode, "That ain't how love works." Dean, who has made hundreds of these superficial love connections, you know. “Sometimes you just go straight to the sex.”

Bea: Sometimes you're just following a script so you can achieve it, and then sometimes you're going off-script, and that's when you get into these wild territories.

Remmy: But what is love, and what are Dean's experiences with true love? For him to say, "Sometimes it gets crazier than that." It's like, I know that you're not talking about Lisa, maybe...

Bea: [laughs] The suburbs, how wild did they get?

Remmy: Yeah. Well, [laughs] Oh my God. Okay.

Bea: Yeah. Dean's face journey. He starts off looking so wistful and then he becomes a bit more serious when he thinks like, oh no, "Harper's still out there." But Jack, you did good today. [laughs] Don't think about that.

Remmy: Hey, Jack seems unconcerned. I don't think that he actually wrote off Harper in his mind.

Bea: I think he still is kind of like, "She seemed nice."

Remmy: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. I love it.

Bea: It just hasn't really clicked because, again, all he really has is romantic movies [in] the way that she has romantic novels. And so if we follow the script then this is kind of okay. We got rid of the bad guy part of it. I mean, who's she gonna resurrect? Miles? We know that's not gonna happen. 

Remmy: [laughs] Oh my gosh. I want Harper back so much in season 15. 

Bea: I would love it. That actress was phenomenal. The character is wonderful. Just thinking, [a] long line of necromancers and this is what she decides to do. She just wants to stay in her small town, read a bunch of books, and mack on her dead boyfriend. 

Remmy: [sighs] I love her. I love her.

Bea: Yeah. Chef's kiss.

Remmy: [laughs]

Bea: And Jack's little moment here, "And I was right," and Dean just like, "No, it's not about being right. It's about how you handle your mistakes and how you learn from them."

Remmy: Yeah.

Bea: And Jack, again, just being — he's so earnest, you can't say he's being snarky or cheeky or anything. He's just, "And not beating yourself up over your mistakes?" and Dean's like, "You know, you're pretty smart sometimes." Like, damn. “This kid got me.”

Remmy: Yeah, exactly, exactly. Dean is again in that mentoring role, where he is saying make your mistakes but learn from them. Jack, with a little twinkle in his eye, says, "And you don't beat yourself up over them," and [laughs] it's just the, "You got me there," meme.

Bea: [laughs] Yeah. “Damn. Damn, you're right.”

Remmy: [laughs]

Bea: And Dean assures that he's gonna go talk to Sam about getting Jack on more of these hunts. It makes me think of when Dean mentioned earlier, that Cas was an insurance policy on those hunts that Jack was on. Dean had enough assurance that Jack would be fine because Cas was there, but he maybe didn't take Cas' perception of how Jack was doing at face value.

Remmy: Exactly.

Bea: Because Cas would be an optimist about what is going on with Jack. Cas has a buttload of faith in Jack's abilities, but Dean hasn't seen it in action. Now that he has, and he can put his own judgment to place, he's like, "You know what? Cas was right about this, and I am about this too. We're going to talk to Sam now, we'll get him on-board as well."

Remmy: And we talk about this episode being one of the first times where Jack is really worming his way into the cracks of Dean's walls. Jack has thoroughly endeared himself to Dean.

Bea: Yeah. He really proved himself on this case, and I think that Dean — as much as we like to poke fun that he did not like the "old man" comment — I think that Jack having the gumption to really throw himself into these roles and really sell them, I think there was a level of appreciation there from Dean. Just being able to see how Jack was capable of doing all of these little roleplay moments that are needed on the job.

Remmy: My heart soars for this relationship. I love it.

Bea: Oh, I know. And we're getting right near the end here. Jack is coughing and he's playing it off, just saying, "Oh, you know, it's all part of being human, shucks," and then he coughs harder and there's blood.

Remmy: [strained] Yeah. Yeah.

Bea: And there's nosebleeding.

Remmy: And again, Jensen's acting, just phenomenal. He's just non-verbally showing his concern and, non-verbally, his concern turning to alarm.

Bea: Yeah. He just pivots on that emotion. 

Remmy: Augh. It's so...

Bea: It's like, "Are you okay, kid?" "I don't know." Whomp! [Jack] lays out on the ground.

Remmy: Yeah. We end on Jack, unconscious in the kitchen, bleeding from his nose and mouth. Dean just does not know what to do.

Bea: Dean's kneeling beside him, calling his name.

Remmy: Aw. Baby...

Bea: I know.

Remmy: Baby!

Bea: We can't have it all fun and jokes and necromancy. We got to have some sad moments cropping in here too.

Remmy: [laughs] Yeah. Who's going first? Who gets to steal the other's takeaway?

Bea: You go first, because I've stolen at least a couple of them, here. So what was your final takeaway?

Remmy: My final takeaway. My final takeaway was Charlie this episode.

Bea: Augh, shot through the heart.

Remmy: [laughs] Because, you know, on first watch, it was just crippling. 

Bea: Yeah. I remember how hard it hit you.

Remmy: It did, all of the Charlie feels welling up. This second watch, I actually got to take that to an even deeper level. I got to examine Sam's feelings towards his Charlie versus this alt Charlie, and maybe why Sam is so desperately trying to find his Charlie in this alt Charlie.

Bea: Yeah, the note that he ended on with his Charlie, and how that note carries through with the new one in his life. 

Remmy: Oh my gosh. Yes, and even on second watch, it was just... I thought they handled it so well, where it still hurts to — you want to put yourself in Sam's shoes. You want to desperately search for our Charlie in this alt, but to be respectful to the character, to not cheapen the Winchester-Charlie relationships, you do have to explicitly acknowledge the fact that this is not our Charlie. 

Bea: Yeah. You have to do what Charlie is doing and draw these firm boundaries around your expectations versus what is actually there.

Remmy: And I love that this Charlie did that. We cannot slot her in as a replacement. That was the worry for a lot of us, with these alt versions. 

Bea: Yeah.

Remmy: And I like that certain writers are treating that with the respect it deserves. 

Bea: Yeah, they understand that there was a lot of pain associated with Charlie's death, and they're not going to just gloss over that.

Remmy: But apart from all of that, I love Felicia Day this episode. [laughs] I love to see Charlie in any way, shape, or form. She killed it. She gave us her — We got, really, a proper introduction to this alt Charlie character and I am here for it!

Bea: Yes, we got to spend some time with her and her story is wonderful. We can see the same flavors of the one we know, but this one is brand new and it's all the better for it. 

Remmy: Yes. Yes. What's your final takeaway?

Bea: I think I gotta go with Harper. The whole literary element that was going on in the story, the playing to your script versus subverting expectations... Like, her name is even Harper Sales. We're going to HarperCollins books, you know. Her whole thing is just being immersed in this literary world, and I really enjoy her as a villain, as being someone who wasn't in pursuit of these big dreams or influencing the area around her. She just wanted her boyfriend, she wanted her boyfriend's snacks, and she wanted her books.

Remmy: [laughs] Well, that's what I loved about her.

Bea: I don't know. It's just a great villain. It was a great character. The actress sold it. I should really have her name here to give her props. I'll just awkwardly edit it in later. 

Remmy: [laughs] Yes, we will. Yeah. Yeah, I loved the actress a lot, a lot, a lot. I loved Harper's whole even origin story. We weren't told explicitly, but she was living her story, right? She was the popular girl in school. She was the prom queen. She had the high school sweetheart, and it was only once the plot deviated from what she expected, when her first love — true love does not conquer all, that her boyfriend did want something grander than the small town, whether or not Harper would be a part of that — that Harper said no, "I am the five-year-old girl in the princess dress who has my entire life planned out for me. I know what I want." Well, who has not planned out for me, but who has this gumdrop fairytale vision of what I want my life to be and, by golly, that's how it's gonna be.

Bea: Yeah. “I'm going to fight for that tooth and nail, because no one gets to decide what's on my script except me.”

Remmy: The actress was phenomenal. 

Bea: Yes, Maddy Phillips was her name.

Remmy: Maddy Phillips. 

Bea: Yes, and she was actually in a season 10 episode as well. 

Remmy: Bring her back!

Bea: Yes! Harper, come back. Keep writing letters. I would love to see Jack just has an awkward stack at the post office. 

Remmy: I would love to see Jack just has an awkward stack on his bedside table. 

Bea: Oh my gosh.

Remmy: In season — I want all the callbacks in season 15. You know we're going to get them, but I don't just want the season 3, "Let's bring back Ash," callbacks. I want all the callbacks. 

Bea: Yes. It's not all just about the nostalgia, although that is going to be a great flavor for the next season. It is also about the stepping stones they built along the way, and what intrigue they've been able to carry on throughout the years.

Remmy: [soft laugh/cry]

Bea: Such a good episode.

Remmy: It's a great episode.

Bea: If you can't tell, it's been a delight.

Remmy: We so hope you guys are watching this with us, because we can only capture a fraction of the delight in every single one of these episodes. It's so good.

Bea: Yeah, we're already going through them in quite a granular fashion, but we could go all the deeper. We could go subatomic on this.

Remmy: [laughs]

Bea: There's so many good elements that are at play here.

Remmy: Yeah. Yeah, and that was season 14, episode 6.

Bea: [sweetly] "Optimism".

Remmy: "Optimism", and I didn't even think about the title tied in with the themes of the episode. I love it.

Bea: Yes.

Remmy: And next week we will cover episode 7, "Unhuman Nature". So yeah. We hope you had fun, guys, listeners. Dear listeners, we love you so much. We had a blast, and if you liked our content then subscribe on iTunes or Google Play, or Stitcher or Spotify.

Bea: Wherever, wherever. Come join us. Rate us if you feel like it. Talk to us. We love talking, very obviously.

Remmy: Yeah, yeah. Mention us on Twitter, or send us an ask on Tumblr, or leave us a comment on whatever podcast platform you desire. We see every one and we cherish every one, and we appreciate you. We will see you next week. 

Bea: All right. So bye, guys

Remmy: Bye, guys.

Bea: See you next week!

Remmy: Bye!

[post-outro stinger]

Remmy: We are so bad at outros. 

Bea: [laughs]


End file.
